[Moon-net] Will things ever change? Pls clarify!

Mon Feb 4 09:41:51 CST 2008

Russ, Dominique, all:

Might I add that the reason that assisted (mainly 
meaning Internet Logger) class was included was 
because of the perception that digital signals 
could not be randomly detected and thus needed 
coordination (real-time sked).  That has proved 
not necessarily correct and some stations have 
worked out a method for random digital 
operation.  As with CW/SSB, random works best 
with a strong eme signal.  QRP signals are lost 
in the QRM.  That is neither bad or good...it just is.

Now with the advent of MAP65 digital software 
program, we have a powerful tool to scan the 
sub-band and capture all (most) signals.  That 
will be a great advantage to digital stations running random.

Perhaps contests need allow two digital classes: 
Random and Assisted.  Or maybe technology has 
provided for dropping the Assisted Class?

73 Ed - KL7UW

At 06:11 AM 2/4/2008, Russ K2TXB wrote:
>Dominique, it depends upon your definition of a QSO.  Some people would say
>that none of our EME contacts are QSO's because we (usually) do not have
>discussions or exchange any data except in a predetermined format.  No one
>discusses the weather or what their rig is, etc.   I actually saw a message
>to that effect from a ham the other day.  He allows that contacts made in
>contests and via EME or MS are not QSO's, but that they count for credit for
>working a station.  I do not necessarily agree, but it goes to show that we
>do not all think alike on the matter.
>
>I do not know if there is any official definition of a QSO, but there is an
>official definition of a contact and that is what we use for our standard -
>exchange calls, report, rogers - both ways.  The standard does not specify
>any requirement for how the stations get together.  It does not matter if it
>was random, via the internet, via mail sked, or via the telephone.  The only
>requirements are that the contact contain the above information that
>information is only exchanged over the radio waves.  One cannot use the
>internet or the telephone to send his report or his RRR.  That seems obvious
>and I think everyone understands this (even though some are willing to break
>that rule).  But there are some people on here who are trying to say that
>contacts made by using the internet for making the sked are somehow
>different than the skeds we have always used.  That is just not true.
>
>Contests, on the other hand, have specific rules that go beyond the simple
>requirements of a contact.  In the past they have always prohibited
>schedules made during the actual contest period and by non-amateur means.
>Only recently have contests started allowing an assisted class - allowing
>skeds to be made during the contest, and via non-radio means.  Personally I
>do not believe that such assisted contest classes are good for our hobby or
>for EME.  However it seems that my opinion is out voted and assisted mode
>has become popular with some.  I do believe that a worse thing would be to
>have separate contests for assisted modes.  That would split us and make
>each contest have less activity.  So if we are going to have assisted
>contest classes, then I guess "so be it".  It is better than splitting us
>into disparate groups - "east is east and west is west and never the twain
>shall meet" (Rudyard Kipling-1892).
>
>Very 73, Russ K2TXB
>
>
>________________________________
>
>         From: dfaessler at bluewin.ch [mailto:dfaessler at bluewin.ch]
>         Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 4:38 AM
>         To: k2txb at dxcc.com; moonbounceboard
>         Subject: AW: Re: [Moon-net] Will things ever change? Pls clarify!
>
>
>
>         Russ
>
>
>
>         you are right. They are contacts.
>
>         The real question however is, - ARE THEY QSO'S?
>
>         73 HB9BBD
>
>
>
>
>
>         Dominique Fässler
>         HB9BBD
>         +41794002118
>
>
>
>
>
>         ----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----
>         Von: k2txb at dxcc.com
>         Datum: 04.02.2008 04:20
>         An: "moonbounceboard"<moon-net at list-serv.davidv.net>
>         Betreff: Re: [Moon-net] Will things ever change? Pls clarify!
>
>         Bodo, Clearly all of your examples are valid contacts.
>
>         73, Russ K2TXB
>
>         > -----Original Message-----
>         > From: moon-net-bounces at list-serv.davidv.net
>         > [mailto:moon-net-bounces at list-serv.davidv.net] On Behalf Of Bodo
>Heyl
>         > Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 3:24 PM
>         > To: moonbounceboard
>         > Subject: [Moon-net] Will things ever change? Pls clarify!
>         >
>         > To make it more clear for me:
>         >
>         > A) I am using JT65, look for the logger and see XYZ calling
>         > on a certain QRG (selfspotting), I call him, we exchange the
>         > necessary QSO infos, I am not using the logger during the QSO.
>         >
>         > B) I know from my paper list, that station XYZ is normally
>         > using the QRG 144.139MHz.
>         > I see him and call him, we again exchange the infos.
>         > There is no logger info at all, my computer is switched off.
>         >
>         > Which QSO is valid? A or B or none?
>         >
>         > C) I am using CW, see XYZ selfspotting in the CW logger, call
>         > him and fortunately we make a QSO
>         >
>         > D) XYZ sends me an E-mail asking for a CW sked.
>         > We arrange by e-mail (not snail mail) the details like QRG
>         > and date/time, finally we make a QSO.
>         >
>         > Which QSO is valid? C or D or none?
>         >
>         > Thanks in advance for enlightment,
>         >
>         > 73s Bodo/DL2FCN
>
>
>
>
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73,
Ed - KL7UW
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