[Moon-net] Will things ever change? Pls clarify!

Sun Feb 3 21:20:32 CST 2008

Bodo, Clearly all of your examples are valid contacts.

73, Russ K2TXB

> -----Original Message-----
> From: moon-net-bounces at list-serv.davidv.net 
> [mailto:moon-net-bounces at list-serv.davidv.net] On Behalf Of Bodo Heyl
> Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 3:24 PM
> To: moonbounceboard
> Subject: [Moon-net] Will things ever change? Pls clarify!
> 
> To make it more clear for me:
> 
> A) I am using JT65, look for the logger and see XYZ calling 
> on a certain QRG (selfspotting), I call him, we exchange the 
> necessary QSO infos, I am not using the logger during the QSO.
> 
> B) I know from my paper list, that station XYZ is normally 
> using the QRG 144.139MHz.
> I see him and call him, we again exchange the infos.
> There is no logger info at all, my computer is switched off.
> 
> Which QSO is valid? A or B or none?
> 
> C) I am using CW, see XYZ selfspotting in the CW logger, call 
> him and fortunately we make a QSO
> 
> D) XYZ sends me an E-mail asking for a CW sked.
> We arrange by e-mail (not snail mail) the details like QRG 
> and date/time, finally we make a QSO.
> 
> Which QSO is valid? C or D or none?
> 
> Thanks in advance for enlightment,
> 
> 73s Bodo/DL2FCN
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "on4dpx Kenny" <on4dpx at skynet.be>
> To: <moon at moonbounce.info>; <moon-net at list-serv.davidv.net>
> Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 6:38 PM
> Subject: Re: [Moon-net] [Moon] Will things ever change?
> 
> 
> > Interesting topic .
> >
> > I totally agree with Jimmy , Peter , Petros and many others .
> > The rules should not only be used during contest but during 
> every qso .
> > Contest or not , exchanging qso information via a non radio 
> path should 
> > make
> > the qso NOT VALID !
> >
> > Those who says that such qso's are valid should take down 
> their big arrays 
> > ,
> > turn off their radio's and get a couple of computers ...
> >
> > If still not convinced I have various screenshots from a 
> recent activation
> > (BY7PP) showing extremely high "chat activity" with a lot of qso 
> > information
> > being exchanged and afterwards telling that they worked 
> over 40 qso's ! If
> > someone would like to read the screenshots drop me a mail 
> and I will 
> > forward
> > it .
> >
> > It's a milestone that RSGB banned them , unfortunately ARRL 
> don't want to
> > spend much time on this subject as their responses to various emails
> > concerning this problem are very vague , they know whats 
> going on but it
> > seems that they don't want to solve it .
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Kenny ON4DPX
> >
> > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> > Van: moon-net-bounces at list-serv.davidv.net
> > [mailto:moon-net-bounces at list-serv.davidv.net] Namens SV3AAF Petros
> > Verzonden: zondag 3 februari 2008 16:28
> > Aan: moon at moonbounce.info; moon-net at list-serv.davidv.net
> > Onderwerp: Re: [Moon-net] [Moon] Will things ever change?
> >
> > As I can see at the "CQ-CONTEST" link, the condemnation of 
> loggers and
> > selfspotting is widespread with many Hams getting fed up with it.
> > I also share the opinion that loggers and selfspotting do 
> not fit in Radio
> > Contesting and hope ARRL and other contest organizers will 
> ban them just
> > like RSGB did.
> > 73 de Petros sv3aaf
> >
> > Peter Sundberg <sm2cew at telia.com> wrote: Interesting that 
> you bring this 
> > up
> > Jimmy, because there has been a big
> > discussion over the same issues on the CQ Contest reflector 
> recently. The
> > discussion there was regarding QSO liason via loggers, 
> during an ongoing
> > contest.
> >
> > See 
> > 
> http://lists.contesting.com/pipermail/cq-contest/2008-January/
> date.html
> > and
> > scroll down to the end of the month where the subjec lines 
> start saying
> > "Selfspotting...." and later on "Using ON4KST-chat".
> >
> > Most all of the postings say that internet loggers are not 
> a part of a
> > contest.
> > I share that opinion, of course.
> > I also hope that the ARRL will reckognize that selfspotting 
> and logger
> > liason
> > is not radio contesting, regardless of band involved.
> >
> >
> > By the way, the January logs for the 2m Dubus CW EME Event 
> is presented at
> > http://www.sm2cew.com/aw_logs.html
> > Thanks to all participating stations, see you for the next event on:
> >
> > February 16 1230-1530 GMT
> > February 16 2030-2330 GMT
> >
> > 73 de Peter SM2CEW
> > www.sm2cew.com
> > http://blog.sm2cew.com
> >
> >
> >
> > At 14:28 2008-02-01 , jimmyv at hol.gr wrote:
> >>Hello All
> >>
> >>I came across a very interesting decision of RSGB for its Contest
> >>rules on 6m-4m-2m-70cm Contests.
> >>This clearly shows that in the internet / chatrooms days we 
> are living
> >>(totally true for the absolute majority of JT65 EME assisted QSOs on
> >>an everyday basis for the last 6-7 yrs), they are still 
> Radio Amateur
> >>Unions and Contest Organizers (e.g. RSGB, DUBUS, REF etc.)  acting
> >>responsibly,  putting Radio as their first priority.
> >>And prohibit Assisted Class and chatroom QSOs in a Contest.
> >>
> >>------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------------
> > -----
> >>Here is the info:
> >>http://www.vhfcc.org/rules/08rules/General.htm
> >>
> >>Section i:
> >>i. The active use (posting messages, arranging skeds, self spotting
> >>etc) of the DX Cluster and other spotting networks 
> (including internet
> >>facilities for example ON4KST) to assist an entry to a 
> contest on 6m,
> >>4m, 2m and 70cm is banned in all RSGB contests with the exception of
> >>three IARU Region 1 co-ordinated contests (50MHz Trophy in June,
> >>144MHz Trophy in September and 432MHz to 248GHz IARU in October) and
> >>the 144MHz Marconi contest in November where permitted by the IARU
> >>rules for these contests. You may spot a DX station as long as your
> >>operating frequency is not given. A list of do's and don'ts can be
> >>found here http://www.vhfcc.org/rules/08rules/dods.html
> >>------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------------
> > -----
> >>
> >>The list of do's and don'ts for RSGB related Contests could still be
> >>useful to all modes, in the context of new ARRL EME Contest rules,
> >>with NO Assisted class.
> >>
> >>Pardon me but I am really troubled with questions i want to 
> share with
> >>you: I REALLY WONDER WILL ARRL EVER  DO THE SAME FOR THE EME
> >>COMPETITION? Take out Assisted class? Bring back the focus to Radio,
> >>the challenge to the operator, the thrill of Random EME operation?
> >>
> >>Because even though Assisted is intended for new to EME and/or QRP
> >>stations (by the way such class never existed in the cw 
> days !!! for a
> >>far more difficult mode of operation on moonbounce), in ARRL EME
> >>Competition it is fully used by experienced, average, qro, etc.
> >>stations in digital mode.
> >>
> >>I do understand the reasoning and arguments of QRP and new to
> >>moonbounce stations. I really do. But pls allow me to say that they
> >>claim they need help only because they ''were brought up'' by the
> >>majority of their fellow logger ops this way. It is the Teachers'
> >>fault - influence who put them in this norm from day 1.
> >>
> >>However, in the past software random digital tool 
> development has been
> >>released for those working digital, start working on 
> random. This has
> >>been MAP65. A paper on Random QSO practises had been 
> published. Both,
> >>by Joe K1JT. In the latter, examples on how random digital 
> QSOs can be
> >>made and examples of frequency segments for CQ callers and 
> listeners,
> >>were given. Jeremy W7EME had suggested the same, several 
> times, in the
> >>past. Will these suggestions ever be implemented? Some stations went
> >>on further working digital Unassisted (minority) in recent yrs
> >>Contests, developing various ways to be more effective, as they saw
> >>fit. Congrats to all for taking the lead trying to improve their
> >>station and help others!
> >>But why ARRL has introduced Assisted class since it is used 
> for other
> >>purposes? Why should it remain?
> >>
> >>Could you tell me why in the cw only days, such class never existed?
> >>For any operator, qrp/qro, new/old, whoever. Why cw Contest QSOs 99%
> >>take place on random? Why can't we have a Radio - not an Internet -
> >>ARRL Contest without exceptions?
> >>
> >>Those who claim fun as their first priority regardless of anything
> >>else, or those who, for their own reasons, can only operate Assisted
> >>6m-2m-70cm-23cm, they could ask ARRL to organize a separate rallye
> >>type of EME event where everything is allowed to maximize their
> >>beloved QSO numbers. Why not?
> >>
> >>Final note:I totally understand the need of Specific forms of
> >>assistance required for 13cm (current frequencies 
> allocation, doppler
> >>shift, multiple feeds etc.) and above bands for all modes of
> >>operation. Therefore, this is not a topic of this discussion.
> >>
> >>73
> >>Jimmy SV1BTR
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>Moon mailing list
> >>Moon at moonbounce.info
> >>http://www.moonbounce.info/mailman/listinfo/moon
> >>
> >> Please enter/update your standings:
> >> http://www.vhf-dx.net/top.html
> >>
> >> When you decide to remain anonymous I may consider this 
> unpolite and
> > remove
> > you from the list
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
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> >
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> unpolite and 
> > remove
> > you from the list
> >
> >
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